Working with Josh & mum - the journey

[beksnjake]

AS I seem to have mum's permission to work with Josh regularly I thought perhaps it would be better to keep a record of how we're doing on here - that way when I get stuck or things don't go right I have plenty of people to ask for help!

A little background on the Welsh fella - Conygar Joshua is an overgrown Welsh Section C standing 13hh 3 3/4in in his bare feet. Myself and mum bought him together 14 years ago as a 7 year old ride and drive- well I handed over my money when we picked him up, mum had done all the viewing and trying out. What we didn't know at the time was he'd only been backed a couple of months previously - so the people we bought him from only had him a month as I think he was a little more than they could handle!

I did used to ride him but had a freak accident about 4 months after we bought him where the saddle slipped as I got on, he panicked and ran off (his default setting!) and I eventually fell off after handing off the side thinking my neck was going to be broken by the arena fence. I lost my nerve completely and it took many months of very patient work on other horses and by mum to get me on him again - I have to say I was absolutely determined I was going to ride him again. I did get to the point where I could canter him in an indoor arena but I was never going to go places on him because he is too sharp and quick for me. Mum recognised this before me and in 1999 she bought me out. I went on to buy Jake and thats another story

Anyway he has always been a spooky horse, one who soaks up feelings from those around him too - if other horses are worried about something, Josh doesn't wait to see what it is - he goes. After 14 years mum is pretty good at stopping him and he doesn't run quite so far these days. He was also very bargy in his stable etc but he is now very polite and will not leave his stable even if the door is open unless he is invited to do so. He's ridden in a DrCooks because this is what he is comfortable in - he headshook alot especially in spring and summer - we now know he has bits of wolf teeth in his jaw from a not so good extraction just after we got him - so he very rarely wears a bit.

I originally tried to do some NH with him about 4 years ago when mum broke a few ribs (Josh bucked from standstill - something he had never done before and hasn't since) - as I've mentioned on other threads the person helping me wasn't quite the expert they claimed to be - so both Josh and I came out of the experience very disheartened. Can I just say though that despite the fact he's an old grump I really do love him lots because he can be very sweet and just has a very strong sense of self preservation and a small comfort zone in some areas!

[beksnjake]

Thursday 8 July - 20 minutes in the sandschool.

Josh really good - seems to be more understanding of what I'm asking. Didn't lunge him first this time as I suspect it actually gets him alittle anxious. Just low energy walking round changing direction moving shoulders hindquarters etc. Back ups are softer and very slightly more relaxed - nowhere near as soft as Jake - but then he's been doing it for longer.

Had a couple of half hearted attempts at leaving but I could see exactly what he was thinking so he never left - but I've recognised that this is his answer if I start to push a little hard or ask more of him than he is able to cope with at present - like using the stick and string infront of him - Josh can cope if I lead him so I am between him and the stick/string! He finds it much more difficult if I face him.

Ended the session when I had 2 paired steps back - he usually only moves one foot at a time backwards when asked from the ground - this was I felt a huge thing for him and for me too

[kas]

Good diary, very interesting.

[tazzle]

Didn't lunge him first this time as I suspect it actually gets him alittle anxious. Just low energy walking round changing direction moving shoulders hindquarters etc.

#

sounds like a good plan ... and sounds as though you understand this little chap

[beksnjake]

Not able to do much with him over the next couple of weeks (work etc - boo hoo) but mum and dad go on holiday in August so I will have more time to play. . . .

[beksnjake]

As things are soon to change for Josh - he's coming to live with Jake (and 9 other geldings!) I'm hoping I can restart some of the work we began last summer. Its interesting to work with such a different horse/pony - Jake seems sooo much easier - but my timing is better now and I can see the subtle signs Josh gives when he is uneasy with things. Hopefully by mid-May I can start working with him again, once he's settled in.

[el]

Looking forward to the updates. Fascinating when you can see what they're thinking before they really commit to doing something properly and how you get around it. Very like Oz.

[beksnjake]

Thought I should add mum to the title of this thread as she is now learning GW with Josh.

Today we both rode up to use the sandschool - I can confidently report that Josh is NOT bothered by the rope - stick & string yes - rope no!

Mum untacked Josh and started by leading him round the school as it was the first time he'd been there - he was very looky and stayed close to his big orange friend but did settle quite quickly. Neither of them were too bothered by the farmer herding up sheep in the field next door but their attention was definitely on the running sheep!

I then suggested to mum that I work Josh and she worked Jake as he knows what to do. I was really impressed at how quickly she is picking things up although she feels all fingers & thumbs with the rope etc.

Josh was pretty good too - nice & responsive but does have a tendency to try & push his shoulders at you (I think this based on his anxiety) but if you're not careful he will make you go backwards! However mum says I took only one or two steps back (yay!!! at last). I will have to work on this - I know I need to be more assertive in getting him to move his shoulders out. Best of all he didn't try to leave - thought about it once or twice but I redirected him before he could act on it. Only a short session but worked in walk trot & canter. Jake of course was his usual brilliant self, which is giving mum more confidence.

Aim to go back on Friday and will work on Josh HQ yields aswell as his shoulders. But I have to say I was really pleased with both him & mum

[beksnjake]

Another brilliant session for both mum & Josh. Jake had the chiropractor out yesterday so wasn't ridden today so we walked both in-hand to the sandschool. Mum still worries about losing Josh in-hand so she did put a chiffiny on but I offered to lead him and basically used the rope & halter. Both walked down quietly with us.

I got mum to do some quiet groundwork with Jake working on getting familiar with handling the rope etc with changes of direction and so on. Jake is so good with her - he knows what mum is asking for even when she's not sure she's asked in the right way - I do love my horse

Josh was really good too - he's a quick learner. I've been looking back through my clinic notes and also downloaded a couple of El's apps (brilliant & as they're on my phone super accessible) so I can really go back to basics. Started with some lateral flexion - Josh finds this quite hard, not sure whether this is physical (stiffness) or emotional (anxiety) but suspect it's a bit of both. But did get him to start to "give" a little which I feel is a huge step forward for Josh.

Josh is very in your face, almost walking over you in his effort to get close to you especially when he's anxious. So asking him to walk round you in a circle is proving somewhat tricky at the moment. But I do find him easier when working in trot - he will stay out on the circle, listen to me & gives nice changes of both speed & pace from very quiet asks. He's very responsive to a soft feel on the rope for changes of direction too unless he is feeling anxious & then he's on top of you. I think I am going to have become more assertive about my space & his invasion of it. At the moment I know I'm being too nice and that's not fair on Josh - I do keep asking myself "what would Steve do?"

Got some beautiful trot & canter work too. Josh threw a few playful bucks but was listening to me all of the time. At no point did he even think about leaving - which for Josh is pretty amazing.

[el]

Aww. If you want any apps just let me know and I'll send you some codes!

[beksnjake]

Thanks el - I have found the groundwork app really useful. Handy to have something I can refer to easily.

Also meant to say earlier that mum is really enjoying the GW - her aim is to be able to take Josh up to the school on his own to do GW which given his attachment to Jake is going to take some work - but he did go infront today on the way back to the stables and was pretty relaxed all the time.

[snigsby]

Very interesting,beks.

I don't know if this helps at all but I had a problem with Khan and Rafferty shooting off in front when led. Khan only went the length of his rope but Rafferty would gallop off from a standing start and sometimes did get away from me.

I solved this quite quickly after Tom's clinic. What I did was use the long tail of the rope and walk along whirling it in front of us. If one of them wanted to shoot forward, they ran into the rope - which was whirling quite fast so a bit of a shock. to get biffed on the nose by it. It only took a couple of times for them both to get the message. Rafferty in particular has never tried to gallop off since.

[beksnjake]

Thanks for the tip Snigsby - will definitely try it out when have our next GW session.

Mum said something very interesting yesterday - she feels that now the time is right for her to start learning GW, was interested in the past but it wasn't the right time or place. I think our recent move is having an amazing effect

[tazzle]

Started with some lateral flexion - Josh finds this quite hard, not sure whether this is physical (stiffness) or emotional (anxiety) but suspect it's a bit of both. But did get him to start to "give" a little which I feel is a huge step forward for Josh.

Josh is very in your face, almost walking over you in his effort to get close to you especially when he's anxious.

is this a welshie trait . Taz braces first in the neck and clings if worried


This is brill to read beks about how mum is in the right place now to get somewthing out of groundwork and about how you do just the right thing and let Jake do the teaching

I will watch this with interest


I will also go look at els apps.. I have upgraded to my first andoid phone ,,, find out if they will go on it. .....although being an android "virgin" I may need some help .

[kas]

Very interesting thread Becks, thanks.